“How is this all happening because of me wearing a pair of heels?” questions Johannes Radebe, the Strictly Come Dancing pro and favourite that’s become news headlines across the globe.
The South African-born dancer might have left the BBC One show this season earlier than any of us sadly expected, but his time with celebrity partner Catherine Tyldesley was anything but a quiet ride. From explosive dance numbers to making history with the first same-sex pairing when he gave a special performance with fellow Strictly pro Graziano di Prima, Johannes Radebe is the queer representation we all need right now. And while he embraces the fun, as an openly gay Black man, it counts for so much more.
“Dance was special because it was my refuge,” he tells Catherine Tyldesley, who has stepped in to interview him for this exclusive conversation. “It wasn’t even a matter of enjoying it all, dance was where I could be like… me. I used to run away from life. There was nobody to protect me or look after me. But those that did said ‘there’s nothing wrong with you my boy’. I want to applaud the fact that there are still good people in the world.”
Related: Strictly Come Dancing makes history with first ever same-sex dance
But as one of the only openly professional LGBTQ dancers on Strictly, does Johannes want same-sex couples as regulars on the BBC show? Abso-fucking-lutely! “The truth? We are ready and we’ve always been ready. And when I say that, I’m talking about my community. The question is: are people ready?”
He continues, holding his head high: “We’ve always been who we are for the longest of time. If same-sex couples is to happen, it will be the most wonderful thing as it’s highly anticipated by the community.”
And while the Strictly ballroom has certainly changed his life forever, Johannes tells Catherine that the responsibility and power he now has can – and will – change the lives of others. Just like dance did for him. “The whole world should dance. And after this whole situation with the heels and everything, there’s young men reaching out to me,” he smiles. “It’s tough. I’m black, I come from where I come from, and I’ve had it hard. It’s not just happening in Africa, it’s happening everywhere, even in this country. A first world country and you’ve still got issues. That’s why we are here, to bring change. Let’s do it!”
In this very special conversation with Catherine, Johannes reveals what life is like as an openly gay man on the biggest UK mainstream television show, his hopes for the future of queer representation, and why dance is more than just an art or job – it’s a lifeline.
Catherine Tyldesley
Favourite ever dance partner?
Johannes Radebe
Erm… (Laughs) You?!
Catherine Tyldesley
Babes! How are you feeling after our departure from the show?
Johannes Radebe
The truth? The truth is that I was gutted, I was gutted. I’m better now we’ve had time to process everything. It’s been good and I realised the bigger picture. ‘There’s a reason for everything’ somebody said to me, somebody very special to me, and I get it. The show was wonderful and I’m in a better place now. It’s done now. It’s over and done with.
Catherine Tyldesley
I mean we shouldn’t have gone, but I won’t push! You’re going to be there every week as a professional dancer, what’s the hardest bit about leaving the show as a partnership?
Johannes Radebe
My dear friend, it’s you. I think not having another week with you. Preparing, conceptualising workshopping the choreography and basking in your ambience every day. I think that’s what hit me after Saturday, having nothing to look forward to and not seeing you.
Catherine Tyldesley
Oh babe, don’t make me cry again! So how would you describe our time on the show?
Johannes Radebe
Liberating. Empowering. Fun. Sassy. But most of all, love. Love beyond everything. I think we were both excited for this journey and it just showed how much every single day. I’ve never laughed so much. You know what I’m talking about.
Catherine Tyldesley
One of my highlights is you putting on a pair of red latex kinky boots and walking through the gym owning it.
Johannes Radebe
I thought it was fun and we had a laugh. Crazy! You made me do it.
Catherine Tyldesley
But you owned it. If you could rewind, is there anything you’d change? Apart from the Samba and the Cha-Cha? (Laughs)
Johannes Radebe
Babes, I would change nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. I say that because I feel like we were authentic and true to our journey, so from day one I knew I had a friend – and it was you. That was a nice place to be and I knew that everything was going to be born from truth and love. I would change absolutely nothing.
Catherine Tyldesley
No, I wouldn’t either. Maybe the New Yorker? (Laughs) Can you remember what made you want to begin dancing?
Johannes Radebe
Dance is such a big part of my culture, so when we laugh, when we cry, when happy or sad. We show it all through dance. African’s and dance is us. I remember when I came across the ballroom and Latin genre, this art form, I saw a performance and this man and woman dancing and he was wearing a sequin tailcoat. I remember saying at the end to him, ‘What do I have to do to wear that sequinned jacket?’ He said I’d need to stick around because you can’t just start off wearing it, you have to work hard. I came back to practise every single day because the end goal was to wear that sparkling jacket.
Catherine Tyldesley
I love that!
Johannes Radebe
I stuck around and it happened early on in my career, and I turned into a championship dancer ahead of my years. I was encouraged and nurtured and this is how it all came about because people saw that there was something in me. Doing it, I fell in love with it but dance was special because it was my refuge. Eventually I ended up going there because I felt safe. It wasn’t even a matter of enjoying it all, dance was where I could be like… me.
Catherine Tyldesley
Did you fit in a bit more there?
Johannes Radebe
Absolutely, I felt like I was more seen. There was no bullying, no name calling. Dance was a safe place for me, from home or from school. Whatever I was going through, I would go to dance. It would help me get away from it all.
Catherine Tyldesley
I think so many people can relate to that. I feel like my safe place might be The Great British Bake Off. (Laughs)
Johannes Radebe
(Laughs hysterically)
Catherine Tyldesley
I love this question… the dance you did a few weeks ago in heels. How did you feel about taking that dance on, and what’s it been like since? I know what I can see in the press, but tell me about you.
Johannes Radebe
I did not expect it to have the impact it had. It dawned on me when Strictly said to me that this is the concept for this group dance and they suggested to me that I wear a pair of heels – and would I be comfortable with that? To me, that was mind-blowing because… oh my gosh. I live in accepting times where if I wanted to wear heels and strut around, I was allowed to do it. I don’t think Strictly Come Dancing realises what they’ve done because it was very progressive of them in times where representation is needed. I think, for me, doing that was saying to every queer man out there. As soon as I put them on, so many people are going to identify with this. It’s the biggest platform.
Catherine Tyldesley
I think for a lot of people, they breathed a sigh of relief – as they did with your dance with Graziano. How important do you think it is for you to be visible as a gay man? To celebrate that and push forward.
Johannes Radebe
Absolutely it is, now more than ever. I’m 32 years of age, and for the first time I feel I am accepted. I feel liberated. I feel like this is the time for young kids to look at me and to identify with somebody. I think it’s important we have the wold watching Strictly and representation is needed. So when I’m there, doing my thing, I know somehow that I’m liberating others around the world who are looking at me and knowing that he looks like me or acts like me. There is nothing wrong. Maybe then there’s hope that they can become something. That’s been my memory and I think it’s very, very, very important that continue to put the likes of me or them in front of the public so we can make it normal.
Catherine Tyldesley
I’ve not told you this yet but Alfie went to put my knee-high boots on and I was like, ‘Are you being like Johannes?’ and he said, ‘Yes’. He was just as bad as me in heels! (Laughs) Do you think we see enough gay men of colour on television?
Johannes Radebe
If you asked me this a year or two ago, I would have said no. It’s 2019, there’s a lot going on and I feel that the people around the world, they’re more accepting. I’ve recently seen people that I can look at and identify with on TV. It’s only now, it’s happening now. It wasn’t like that but it’s starting to change. But I realise that I’m becoming the change I’ve always wanted to see. We’ve taken a major step forward and I love the way it’s going.
Catherine Tyldesley
For the same thing in Africa, they’re further behind, right?
Johannes Radebe
Absolutely. I hate the fact that people around the world are still being killed. I speak about Africa in general, it’s an abomination that people don’t have rights, they don’t have a voice, they can’t be who they are and be accepted. That is sickening. To be in a country now where one is allowed to be, it’s incredible. I want to get to a place where we are happy and more accepting of each other.
Catherine Tyldesley
How did you deal with homophobia in the past? And what would you advise others going through the same sort of thing?
Johannes Radebe
How did I deal with it? I think as a young boy, you knew that this wasn’t good for me or that this person is not good for me, or a situation made you feel somehow. Every time that happened, I’d remove myself from a situation. You have to find anybody that finds greatness in you, who love you and support you. I used to run away from life. There was nobody to protect me or look after me. But those that did said ‘there’s nothing wrong with you my boy’. I want to applaud the fact that there are still good people in the world. Try and associate with those people as that’s what you need as a young gay person. You will blossom into who you are meant to be.
Catherine Tyldesley
You always speak about your mum who has been so supportive of you.
Johannes Radebe
Yeah, she has. Without realising, mum has always eased the blows. I say those words because it’s important. Everything I’ve ever experienced outside of home that was negative towards me, I would come back home and mum made sure I was okay and knew I was loved. That home was safe for me. If a child in your house receives love, they don’t have to go out looking for it or asking for it because they’re already validated. Parenting young gay people or anybody that is special, you have to constantly be there and let them know they’re okay. I had that and I know I’m very blessed.
Catherine Tyldesley
Do you think Strictly is ready for same-sex partnerships?
Johannes Radebe
Yes.
Catherine Tyldesley
Can you imagine that happening as early as next year?
Johannes Radebe
The truth? We are ready and we’ve always been ready. And when I say that, I’m talking about my community. The question is: are people ready? Let’s reverse that question because we’ve always been who we are for the longest of time. If it is to happen, it will be the most wonderful thing as it’s highly anticipated by the community because it would be amazing. With this platform, it will be tastefully done and not thrown in anybody’s face. We are ready, but is the world ready? I think they are. A lot of people are. They’re engaged and educated. We are getting there. There’s still a long way to go, but we are fast and ready.
Catherine Tyldesley
How did you feel watching back your now history-making dance with Graziano?
Johannes Radebe
I felt proud because we danced, and nobody died. Instead the response has been phenomenal with people appreciating our art form. It was inspirational, liberating and inclusive.
Catherine Tyldesley
What’s the reaction been like since that beautiful moment aired?
Johannes Radebe
Epic and overwhelmingly beautiful feedback from people who love dance. I know we’ve made history, but through dance we were able to evoke emotions and start conversations. It was beautiful.
Catherine Tyldesley
What’s your message to those out there questioning why two men should dance together on the show?
Johannes Radebe
How can anyone create and be a part of a show of this magnitude and not be represented? Let’s respect each other’s choices. We are living in 2019 and I believe this country is progressive and inclusive. I imagine it’s a few people who would be apprehensive because of tradition. Graziano and I have danced and there’s people who appreciated it and are inspired by the change, and I believe that’s what we should embrace; more visibility and diversity so everyone watching this show can feel represented and seen.
Catherine Tyldesley
And if there is any kid out there who has the same dream you had, what would you say to them?
Johannes Radebe
There is a saying in my language, ‘Mamello e tswala katleho’. It means ‘perseverance breeds success’. Persevere. Persevere. Persevere. There’s going to be things that come into your life. There’s things that will happen to you along the way that will discourage you. If I had to say that I was going back to dance classes because of my circumstances, darlings I would not be here. I needed a lot of encouragement, but that also came from me. The discipline I had to learn myself. I also persevered. There are moments I wanted to quit, but I didn’t. To all those young boys looking at me and wondering how, perseverance. I look back now and it was all worth it. Persevere children, persevere.
Catherine Tyldesley
If you could give a letter to young Johannes, what would you say to him?
Johannes Radebe
(Long pause) I would say JoJo, be yourself child. Don’t hide away from the world, the world will adjust to who you are. Everything will be okay. For the longest time, I’ve lived waiting for the worst to happen. To that young me, the young boy, you don’t have to hide from the world. It will all work out because all good things come to good people. I hope and think I’m a good person. You keep on being you because I wish now that I embraced that more. I’m grateful.
Catherine Tyldesley
Looking forward to the future, what changes do you want to see happen?
Johannes Radebe
I want to live in a world where we wouldn’t have to explain ourselves anymore or feel like we aren’t safe or have a voice – I want to be a light for that. I’d love to see a lot more younger men dance, and I’m going to head that up. If it means that we go around the world encouraging people to dance, it’s a wonderful discipline for anybody to be part of. I will be pushing dance. I know dance has changed my life and I believe that a lot more kids can learn from it and take life skills. They should know how to fix their tie and look after their partner.
Catherine Tyldesley
I hope you continue to teach so many other people, and to give them all that freedom of expression.
Johannes Radebe
The whole world should dance. And after this whole situation with the heels and everything, there’s young men reaching out to me. How is this all happening because of me wearing a pair of heels? I get it, I really do. (Pause) It’s tough. I’m black, I come from where I come from, and I’ve had it hard. It’s not just happening in Africa, it’s happening everywhere, even in this country. A first world country and you’ve still got issues. That’s why we are here, to bring change. Let’s do it!
Photography Kenny Whittle
Interview Catherine Tyldesley
Words William J Connolly
Fashion Umar Sarwar
Grooming Magdalena Tucholska using Elemis, Zoeva, Schwarzkopf Professional
Fashion Assistants Sophie Moncaster and Solly Warner
Johannes wear his original ballroom heels, kindly loaned by the BBC/Strictly Come Dancing.
Strictly’s next live show is next Saturday (9 November) at 18:50 on BBC One. And if you still need Strictly magic in your life Strictly: It Takes Two will be on every weekday at 18:30 pm on BBC Two, and 18:00 on Friday.
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