“I saw a rainbow the other day,” Dua Lipa, ally, shares with GAY TIMES. Although the radical optimist didn’t immediately associate the multicoloured-arc-formed-by-light-striking-water-droplets with the alphabet mafia (sacrilege, really), we’ll let her off: she’s been an avid supporter of the LGBT’s since her 2016 synthpop debut ‘New Love’, performing at Heaven in her “first-ever London shows” and proudly flying the flag with performances at Pride. More recently, Dua has showcased her unrivalled painting prowess with Trixie Mattel, defended her “Vacanza Queen” title on Las Culturistas and paid homage to “Dula Peep” on SNL, all of which has officially solidified her place as an icon for the queers and, of course, a “mother”.
“It’s so important to me that the gays love it,” Dua says, smiling, of her newly released third album. The follow-up to her self-titled debut (2017) and seminal sophomore album Future Nostalgia (2020) – both of which are the most streamed albums by a female artist on Spotify, by the way – Radical Optimism is an 11-track collection of sun-drenched earworms that incorporate elements of psychedelia (‘Houdini’), disco (‘Training Season’), house (‘Illusion’) and funk (‘Whatcha Doing’). The album is Dua’s way of combating “chaos gracefully and feeling like you can weather any storm” – and, naturally, she wants the gays to groove, dance the night away or whatever: “I do think about everyone who’s listening to it in the clubs – at Heaven! – and dancing like, ‘I want to give everyone the best experience possible.’”
With the release of Radical Optimism and her Glastonbury headline slot approaching – which she describes as the “biggest show” of her career (and “life”) – GAY TIMES visited Dua in Shoreditch to discuss the ‘experimental’ sounds of her third album, which non-single will resonate the most with the gays and her coveted status as one of Drag Race’s most lip-synced artists. Without further aDua…
I was tempted to wear my Dua Lipa t-shirt today. Would that have been weird? Freaked you out?
You would’ve never freaked me out. I’d have been very chuffed. But, I’m glad you have one in your wardrobe.
It was from the ‘Houdini’ music video premiere.
I love that. The one with the tongue?
The one with the tongue. As a massive pop music fan, watching that music video on the big screen with fellow fans was pure euphoria.
When I saw it that big I was like, ‘Fucking hell!’ And you know the room we were in was where we filmed it?
I’m a bit daft and didn’t realise that until two weeks later. So, Dua Lipa, what song from Radical Optimism are you feeling the most today?
That’s an interesting question. Today I’m feeling ‘Training Season’ because I’ve been doing so many interviews talking about my journey and what I’ve done to get here. I did one about Glastonbury earlier, and I was reminiscing on my show in 2017 and all the touring I did in 2022. I got the offer for Glasto in November of 22, and I feel like everything up until this point has been preparing me for the biggest show of my life, which is headlining Friday. So I’m like, ‘Training Season is over, and now the fucking big thing is coming, and I can’t fuck it up!’
That’s very exciting. I’m feeling ‘Happy For You‘, I think.
Okay… Talk to me about that?
Well, Dua Lipa, it makes me want to get a boyfriend, break up with him and then, a few months later, smile with happiness at a picture of him with someone new. Really mature.
Yeah, I think it’s a real full circle moment, that song. To be able to see an ex and not feel anything negative in that sense and be like, ‘It’s so important that you also have happiness and joy’ and don’t see it in a negative way. It’s such a big part of growing up.
Your Rolling Stone interview described it as a modern day ‘Cool’ by Gwen Stefani, which I liked.
Oh wow. I like that comparison a lot.
You’re a huge lover of Gwen, right? As well as Pink? I bring it up because, the moment I learned of your love for them, I was an immediate stan.
I love P!nk and Gwen a lot. I grew up listening to both of them so much. They’ve soundtracked my life. Them and Nelly Furtado, I love how badass they are. They always said what was on their minds and went against the grain in terms of a pop sensibility. Yeah, such a fan!
I need a collab with you three, but I think I’d go into cardiac arrest.
[Laughs] Maybe we gotta make it happen.
Radical Optimism is pop to the core. How are you feeling about putting it out into the world?
I’m excited. I’m nervous. Putting anything out is such a scary and vulnerable place to be in. People will pick it apart; pick what they like, don’t like, talk about it, what it means and what they think it means to me. It’s going to be interesting. It’s also a pop record through-and-through, but it is sonically different to what people have heard from me. I just hope everyone likes it! And I know that’s a big ask, as you can never please everyone, but it would be nice if it was a nice response.
How did you choose ‘Illusion’ to be number three?
I always knew ‘Illusion’ was gonna come before the album. I felt like it was the one to carry me into the summer. It’s a fun dance track that makes me feel really good. I just always knew it was gonna be number three. When I was toying with the other ones, that was a non-mover. Also, ‘Illusion’ was the first song that I wrote with Kevin [Parker], Danny [L Harle], Tobias [Jesso Jr.] and Caroline [Ailin].
The ‘Illusion’ video is major, by the way. Also, thank you Dua Lipa for continuing to give us an era. A lot of artists, these days, like to release two singles and call it a day. Not Dua Lipa!
[Laughs] I’m giving you all of it. There’s more coming. I have a few more things up my sleeve…
Oh wow. Excuse my excited squeal, I am simply a slut for pop music.
I can tell! How long have you been a journalist?
Seven years, so around the time you debuted too. Funnily enough, one of the first ever articles I did for GT was for the ‘Lost in Your Light’ video, which you retweeted. You obviously remember that, because you haven’t got a lot going on.
I have a weird relationship with Twitter. You came at a point when I was loving Twitter. We go back, you and I!
Way back, Dua Lipa. You previously said Radical Optimism is about going through chaos “gracefully” and feeling like you can weather any storm. These themes are needed right now, right?
Our world is going through so much, all the time. Navigating the everyday, we’re just trying to figure out how to respond to different things that are happening in the world, how to show up for our friends and make sure they’re seen and heard. Sometimes, things have to get really bad before they can get good, in some weird way. Everything goes through peaks and troughs, but as long as we look at things positively in some way, or surround ourselves with the people that we love, or do things we like to do everyday, or find something nice in the everyday, it makes things easier. Finding that optimism is really vital, and so this is another thing of like, ‘Note to self: when things feel really bad, it will get better, change and evolve. You will learn from every experience.’ Instead of shying away from all the negative experiences and the things that cause you pain, walk through it.
Do you ever sit back and say, ‘Yep, I fucking did that’?
[Laughs] See, I don’t do that! I just think the reaction, more so than anything, when I get off stage or when I bump into someone in the street and they say, ‘This song makes me feel a certain way’, that makes me feel good. That gives me a lot of joy.
You have mentioned how this album is inspired by psychedelic, trip-hop and Britpop. What is it about those genres that fit with the themes of Radical Optimism and where you’re at personally?
I think it’s more of an energy, rather than a genre comparison. It was the ambient sounds and musicality that I was most attracted to. The Screamadelica album by Primal Scream, the Portishead record Dummy, Porcelain by Moby, it’s all these euphoric sounds that put you immediately into a world. That was what I was trying to create in my own way. It was that energy that I was really inspired by, but also the freedom of experimenting and trying out new things. I’m not getting away from the fact that it’s a pop record at all, I don’t want that to be the case because I love pop, it’s just that I was experimenting with different sounds that felt, to me, more like that 90s world.
Let’s talk gay shit, Dua Lipa. [Whips out rainbow fan.]
Oh! We mean business. I’m glad you brought your fan. Gorgeous, colourful. I saw a rainbow the other day, on Easter.
Did you immediately think, ‘GAY!’?
Not sure. But I did think, ‘Wow, beautiful rainbow.’
Which Radical Optimism song do you think will elicit the most uproarious response from the LGBT’s, bar the singles?
Bar the singles?! I can’t say… Okay, ‘End of an Era’? It’s so hard! What do you think?
Maybe ‘Whatcha Doing’?
[Starts singing ‘Whatcha Doing’]. I also think ‘These Walls’. It’s more emotional, that one. I don’t know if I can hear that one at Heaven, y’know?
Do you go to Heaven a lot?
No, I haven’t been in ages. But, I did all my first-ever shows in London at Heaven.
We need another Heaven show.
We need another Heaven show.
I’m not really a clubby person anymore Dua Lipa, but I will make a return to Heaven if you’re there.
When was the last time you went?
Oh, well I actually went last week. But, it was for a Drag Race UK finale event! It doesn’t count.
Oh! Okay, okay, okay. You’re like, ‘I don’t go out anymore, but I did go to Heaven last week.’
Read me, Dua Lipa. The LGBT’s love you, hence this interview. Not just for the music, but for how outspoken you are about queer rights. Can you remember when you first noticed the support of the community? Was there a specific moment when you thought, ‘The rainbow people are here for me’?
Probably when I got asked to do the show at Heaven. It was really cool to be in that space and perform, and be so welcomed. Those were the early days of my music as well, and I just felt so accepted by the community. I’ll say around then, probably when we were messaging on Twitter.
Again, we have such a history, don’t we?
We do go way back. I’m so glad we’re reunited.
Are the gays ever in your mind when you’re creating art? Do you ever write a song, record a video or rehearse a dance routine and think, ‘Bloody hell, they’re gonna love this shit’?
Yeah, it’s always more in the… With the songs, I always start off by putting my thoughts out, which initially starts as being cathartic. As the song is taking shape, I think about the live element and I just want people to have fun. So, I do think about everyone who’s listening to it in the clubs – at Heaven! – and dancing like, ‘I want to give everyone the best experience possible.’ So, for sure, I think, ‘I hope the gays love it.’ It’s so important to me that the gays love it. And then, for my music videos, my stylist Lorenzo always says, ‘Right, we’ve gotta give the gays what they want.’ For the ‘Illusion’ video, I think we did just that!
It feels like love for you, from the gays, reached a new seismic shift with the release of ‘Physical’.
Really?!
Abso-bloody-lutely. Obviously, we loved you pre-‘Physical’, but post-‘Physical’ is when it reached a new level of love.
It’s a fun, high-energy, feel-good song. I’m so happy to hear that, because it’s the kind of song that brings people together. I’m really grateful to hear.
I enjoyed your recent video with Trixie Mattel. I have to ask, Dua Lipa, when can we expect that Drag Race guest judge appearance?
I know! We’ll see. We’ll see. I don’t know. I need a requests list. I’ll try and tick them off for you. I love Trixie. She’s the best, and the glamour? The glam is out of control. The makeup is art in itself. I really can’t paint. I can just about do my makeup. I loved being around her.
They’ve lip-synced to you quite a bit on Drag Race, have you seen any?
I saw the ‘Sweetest Pie’ lip-sync, and ‘Hallucinate’.
You’re so lip-synced to. I think there’s also been ‘New Rules’, ‘Don’t Start Now’, ‘Physical’ and ‘Break My Heart’.
I’m so lip-synced to.
Wow, that’s when…
That’s when you know.
You’ve made it, Dua Lipa. You’re a success.
I’m so grateful, thank you so much. That’s so cool.
I want to touch briefly on Future Nostalgia, because it just turned four. That’s your baby!
It’s my child. It’s my four-year-old child.
Despite all the odds against it, it’s become a pop classic. What are your favourite memories from that time?
Touring. I spent so much of the promotion in this weird limbo of not knowing if I’m ever going to be able to perform these songs, doing a lot of press from home and setting up green screens in my living room. It was a confusing time. I didn’t feel the energy from the people around me as much, apart from what I was reading online or what people were telling me about it. It was when I went on tour and I saw people collectively come together, singing and dancing. The tour was initially supposed to be so much of the first record, with a little bit of the second. After two years in lockdown, the Future Nostalgia Tour was every single song on the album. So, it was amazing and I had the best time on the road. I also like making the most of being on the road. I love the idea that I can go into a nice restaurant or museum, feel the culture, and go explore the city because that feeds into the performance.
The Future Nostalgia Tour was a camp extravaganza, so what can we expect from this one?
More of that! I want to keep the spectacle going, and I want people to have fun. Future Nostalgia was relentless to the core, and I want it to be that way for whatever’s next.
Last question, and this is really important: a few years ago you said that you’d like an acting role in American Horror Story, does that still stand?
I did say that. I’m such a fan of American Horror Story.
Favourite season?
I love Coven, and the first season [Murder House]. I really like Ryan Murphy, he’s brilliant, camp and scary. I just think [American Horror Story is] so theatrical and dark and moving and interesting and the stories are great. I don’t know, I love it. I would love to do it at some point.
I’ll message him for you.
Yeah, just tell him. The roles that I did [in Barbie and Argylle] were so small, so maybe I’d like to do something else in the future. But, music is really number-one.
I hope you had fun with me today, Dua Lipa.
I had so much fun. I loved it.
Radical Optimism is out now.
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