Within the first twenty minutes of Fellow Travelers, Matt Bomer and Jonathan Bailey’s sub-dom dynamic is on full display as the latter feasts on his on-screen lover’s foot. (That isn’t a sentence I ever thought I’d write, but hey-ho.) “One of our executives said a long time ago, ‘Let’s make the sex so hot that straight men will want to have gay sex,’” says executive producer and showrunner Ron Nyswaner, who is embracing the influx of articles and horny headlines (including ours) that have focused on the saucy sequences between the two leads. “If people are talking about Fellow Travelers, that’s all I care about.”
The Showtime series, airing on Paramount Plus in the UK, is based on the acclaimed Thomas Mallon novel of the same name, which follows a “volatile” gay romance in the shadow of McCarthy-era Washington. Bomer and Bailey respectively lead the series as Hawkins Fuller and Tim Laughlin, with their affair coinciding with Joseph McCarthy and Roy Cohn’s declaration of war on “subversives and sexual deviants”. Fellow Travelers chronicles their (at times) toxic relationship over the course of four decades whilst exploring the Vietnam War protests of the 1960s, the “drug-fueled disco hedonism” of the 1970s and the AIDS crisis of the 1980s.
Nyswaner, the Academy Award-nominated director behind Philadelphia (1993), tells GAY TIMES that it was crucial for him to embrace gay sex in the show as a result of his own personal experiences. “For me, when I came out in the 70s, those were the celebratory days of the gay experience. It was pre-AIDS and we were released. Sex is the way that we expressed our community,” he explains. “We wanted the sex to be powerful in Fellow Travelers, because I believe it is a really powerful part of the gay experience.”
Read ahead for our full interview with Ron Nyswaner, where he discusses the chemistry between Matt Bomer and Jonathan Bailey, whether Fellow Travelers will become an anthology series and, as mentioned above: gay sex/feet/oral – all of it.
Ron, I’m so excited to speak with you about Fellow Travelers. I watched it all two months ago and I’ve had no one to discuss it with.
Wow, terrific. You binged it? Great.
It made me laugh. It made me sob my heart out. It educated me and, at times, it made me feel somewhat aroused.
Awesome! Great. We succeeded. I love that you put it that way. One of our executives said a long time ago, and I have a feeling this doesn’t necessarily apply in this situation, ‘Let’s make the sex so hot that straight men will want to have gay sex.’ I haven’t yet met a straight man who’s said ‘now I want to go out and have gay sex’ but anyway, that was the goal.
I think it will do the job, Ron. I tell you what, I’ll sit down with some of my heterosexual male friends, we’ll watch Fellow Travelers together and I’ll report back.
I actually had a screening with some straight friends of mine who love TV and I asked them, ‘So, what about the sex?’ My friend Mike said, ‘The first couple of scenes, yes, it’s unusual for me. I felt a little strange. Then, the story takes over and you just care about these guys, you want them to be together and that’s all you’re thinking about.’ So, that’s what happens.
Yeah, but I do agree with you: I think these sex scenes will convert some people. For example, I came away from episode one thinking, ‘Hmm, maybe feet aren’t that bad.’
I’ve succeeded in my goal! I just have to say, shooting a sex scene that involves feet going somewhere, you have to make sure that you constantly wash that actor’s feet. You do these scenes over and over again, so I think Matt had his feet washed about 25 times over the course of three or four hours of shooting that scene.
How many times was his foot in Jonathan’s mouth, do you think? Really important question I just asked there.
We tried, with those very specific scenes, to do them with two cameras so you’re not having to redo takes. We tried to do them with minimal takes. There was one Friday night when we were in this alley in Toronto at two in the morning. In front of the whole crew, the director is calling across to the first AD saying, ‘Hey, I just spoke to Ron and that couple back there won’t be do doing anal. They’ll be doing oral. I SAID THEY’LL BE DOING ORAL NOT ANAL.’ I turned to the crew and said, ‘It’s just another Friday night at Fellow Travelers, guys.’
I can’t act or direct, but this has made me want to act and direct.
Okay, we’ll get you on the set next time.
I wasn’t originally planning on discussing the sex scenes at the start of the interview, but it is what is Ron. I want to talk to you about the casting process, because I personally don’t think Matt or Jonathan have ever been this brilliant. Why were they the right actors to bring these characters to life?
Matt came on board really early. Somebody optioned the book for me 11 years ago and then I got distracted doing other things. About four years ago, I shared the book with Robbie Rogers, one of my executive producers, and he read the book and said, ‘You’re crazy if you walk away from this. And if you walk away from it, Greg [Berlanti] and I will do it.’ So, I asked him to do it with me and immediately said, ‘Let’s meet Matt Bomer for Hawk.’ I knew Matt’s work, of course, but I’d never met him. He walked into a restaurant and Robbie and I looked at each other and said, ‘We have Hawkins Fuller.’ What I knew about Matt, and he puts it to use in Fellow Travelers, is that he is our era’s Paul Newman. What Paul Newman can do, what the great film actors can do, is that they can let you know what they’re thinking without saying a word. If you watch Paul Newman in Hud, for example, the camera goes to his face and you know what he’s thinking.
Throughout Fellow Travelers, Matt had this ability, which is very important for Hawkins, to be very cold and reserved on the outside, but to let us know that things were happening on the inside. To have feelings and then hide them is the highest level of acting. We reached out to Jonny when we were closer to production. Robbie had met him when he was producing My Policeman and said, ‘Jonny has this energy and emotional openness that is right for Tim.’ We met Jonny on a Zoom call and were immediately captivated. We put them together in a chemistry read and within seconds knew we had our two guys.
I think I speak on behalf of everyone when I say: put the chemistry read in the extras or deleted scenes, please.
I think we are going to do deleted scenes, but I don’t know where. We have a collection of them that we want to share on perhaps… Does anyone buy DVD’s anymore? I don’t know. And I’m not sure if we recorded that chemistry read…
Dammit.
I know, I probably could’ve retired if I sold that thing.
I understand your comments on Matt, though. He has the ability to be charismatic, sexy and sinister without a single expression.
Also, you understand that he’s emotionally vulnerable. At the end of the pilot when he asks Tim to be with him… When you watch a character and you know it’s really hard for them to ever reveal any kind of need for another person, and to express that need, it’s much more moving when they do it.
I read a recent interview of yours where you said you’re not actually fond of love stories. So, what was it about Hawk and Tim that made you put those feelings aside?
I am fond of a certain kind of love story. I love a love story that has dramatic conflict in it. I’m not particularly interested in love stories where everything turns out okay. Conflict is what dramatists use, that’s what we do. So, we have a story where two people are just not, in some ways, meant to be together. They view the world differently. They approach the world differently. But, they are powerfully drawn to each other and for some reason we want them to be together. Although, we know that if they’re together, Tim is probably going to suffer a lot. That’s just the way it is. Their different approaches to the world pulls them apart. I love that kind of story.
Why are we so drawn to forbidden love? Why is that?
Because it’s cathartic. That’s what good art should do. I believe it should move us emotionally. If it doesn’t move me in some way, I’m really not interested. One of my favourite movies is The Way We Were. I was a kid in high school and saw that in a movie theatre. The last scene… I could cry right now, repeating that scene. As a high school kid trying to be very careful about showing emotion in public, as a gay man, I remember trying to not cry. I dared not cry in a movie theatre in the 70s in small town Pennsylvania. I would have the crap beaten out of me. But, I know that that movie really moved me. I’ve experienced both kinds of love in relationships, where I think I was the one who was desired more, but the ones I prefer most are when I do the desiring. There’s something about the elusive object of desire that somehow intrigues me in my personal life, but certainly in this show. Sam, we talked about this on the set: who would you fall in love, Hawkins or Tim?
Hawk, for sure.
It was evenly divided. I would follow Hawk Fuller for the next 35 years without question.
Ron, I only fall for people who don’t give a damn about me.
What is that? It’s exciting, that’s what it is. Everyone wants to cure us and think we need to go to therapy. Nah, I don’t need to go to therapy. I like a bit of the pain!
Let’s talk more about the sex scenes Ron, because why not? What I want to ask is…
Am I gay? Yes. Have I had sex with men? Yes. I admit it, yes I have!
Fab, I’ve got my headline. We’re done. A majority of the press and headlines surrounding Fellow Travelers focused on the sex scenes, whereas other major plot points have been somewhat ignored. How do you feel about that?
We certainly embrace the sex in the show. If people are talking about Fellow Travelers, that’s all I care about. I didn’t create it to have some sort of social message and to teach people lessons about anything, which is a boring approach to art. For me, when I came out in the 70s, those were the celebratory days of the gay experience. It was pre-AIDS and we were released. Sex is the way that we expressed our community. No one was going to get married. We were all going to live in communes. We had all raised children together. That’s what we all thought in the 70s, including my straight friends. That connection that I got to have with other gay men, whether it was one night or a little bit longer, it was very powerful to me and it gave me joy. That excitement and that joy, dancing to Donna Summer and doing poppers on the dancefloor, sex was at the heart of our gay revolution. I’m a sober person now, I haven’t had a drink or drug in 24 years. We wanted the sex to be powerful in Fellow Travelers, because I believe it is a really powerful part of the gay experience.
Is it true that you’re considering turning Fellow Travelers into an anthology series? If so, what does that future look like?
I haven’t shared that with my employers, so this will be news to them! I loved making Fellow Travelers, it’s one of the greatest experiences of my life. If I can continue, in some way, that’s a conversation to be had with the people who will be financing that. But, we will be having that conversation.
Fellow Travelers airs Saturdays on Paramount Plus in the UK.
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